In the Chen Style Taijiquan Practical Method book, HJS writes the following in regards to Double Heavy:
When the left hand is solid the left foot must be empty. When the right hand is solid, the right foot must be empty.
… These examples show that if the hand is solid then the foot must be empty [or the other way around]. If the front hand and foot are both solid, then the front foot cannot move freely.
– Chen Style Taijiquan Practical Method by Hong Junsheng, page 24.
I basically understand this to mean that both the right hand an right foot cannot be solid, as opposed to the conventional understanding of double-weighted in that both feet cannot have equal weighting on them. However, how does this apply to moves like lazy tie coat in chen style? In this move, I believe both the right leg and right hand are solid, but if the above quote is correct, this would have to mean that perhaps while the right leg is solid, then the right hand is empty? This would make the left hand, the one at either the dantien position or waist position be solid?
What then about single whip? In this movement, generally both the left leg and the left arm are solid, unless this idea attributes to the right hook hand being solid instead?
This idea reminds me of something my first taiji taught me. He said that when doing brush knee twist step in yang style, even though the right hand is striking, we should focus on the left hand, the brushing hand. Likewise, in repulse monkey, don’t focus on the pushing hand, but focus on the retreating hand. I believe his reasoning for saying so was so that we could stay centered and not follow the “yang” aspect hand. However, in both of those examples, it seems to contradict the notion of double heavy???
I don’t know.. I think I’m missing something here. Any thoughts?
[edited on 8/5/06 to include some extra information in the blockquote to improve clarity]
[tags]HongJunSheng,chen,principles,emptiness[/tags]
9 comments
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August 5, 2006 at 4:15 am
silkreeling
Do you have the book “lost taichi classics from the late ching dynasty”?
Chapter 22 - An explanation of lightness and heaviness, floating and sinking, in taiji - of the yang family classics explains this topic better i think. but still there are lots to digest.
from my very limited experience of basic pushing hands, double weightedness will result in a stiff block for your opponent to push, whether left or right, up or down. however, if you have an empty side while the other is solid, whether up or down, left or right, then there is room for change when your opponent push the solid side.
could it be HJS is referring to push hands?
August 5, 2006 at 8:59 am
wujimon
Hi Silkreeling.
I don’t have the book you referenced, but I will definitely add it to my reading list.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m more familiar with the yang explanations of full/empty being in regards to weight shifting on legs and this concept makes sense to me.
Just the HJS concept is a bit harder to digest since I believe most of of stances in the Practical method have a weight distribution of 45/55 versus the common 70/30 or even 100/0. I’m trying to understand it within the HJS context.
To me, I think any given principle should be universally applied in either form or push hands if it’s to be a true principle.
August 5, 2006 at 9:16 am
wujimon
FYI, I added an extra sentence to the beginning to hopefully clarify some of the details.
August 5, 2006 at 7:20 pm
zenmindsword
figure out how not to be double-weighted when in 50:50 (and also not double-substantial) and you have the solution
August 6, 2006 at 2:43 pm
silkreeling
good one knowingfish, as explained in Chapter 22 - An explanation of lightness and heaviness, floating and sinking, in taiji - of the yang family classics.
August 6, 2006 at 4:03 pm
wujimon
Hey Silkreeling:
You’re referring to the book by Douglas Wile, Lost Tai-Chi Classics from the Late Ching Dynasty (Chinese Philosophy and Culture), right?
August 10, 2006 at 4:27 pm
eduardo
Hey,
That doesn’t apply to “tying coat”, not as you are thinking about it. Oh, if it were that simple. It changes if you are practicing alone or against someone, it refers to the inside and outside, and to top versus bottom of the body.
Cheers
August 10, 2006 at 5:03 pm
wujimon
Hi Eduardo.
I believe in the HJS system, the form is done as the application would be done, so in that regard, it would be the same practicing along or against someone. That’s one of the key trademarks of the Hong system.
I believe in chen style via the Chen Xiao Wang line, the qi goes along the following route: dantien, back, shoulder, elbow, hand. However in appication or a push hands scenario, you’re always supposed to be “one step ahead” on the qi path, so when the hand is out, the qi/intention would be at the waist area so you are not “double heavy” in the intention or “yi” sense.
I’m just trying to approach this from a HJS point of view, as it’s different from the chen village variant.
thanks for your comment.
October 20, 2006 at 9:03 pm
wujimon » Experience with 6 Sealings 4 Closings Application
[...] For more on the topic of double heavy read Misunderstanding Double Heavy? Applying this principle to 6 Sealings, 4 Closings, the rollback is executed with the weight remaining in the front right leg while the upper body becomes solid in the rear left, thereby creating equal opposing forces. This results in the person (me) being centered in the “middle” of the forces. [...]