the way of wujimon

This is an area that should be talked about more. I see lots of people doing this in a loud, superficial, external kind of way.

putting the feet down softly is also another way of training, although it was said that Chen fake trained that way becos he often did his forms in the deep of the night in his bedroom where he was sharing with his cousin and didn't want to wake his cousin up.

Stomping serves to disperse(san) your qi and dispersing is an important principle to achieving emptiness in your body. This is something i am still trying to figure out.

Imagine disperse as a drop of water falling and hitting the surface and thus causing ripples. This analogy has been used by knowingfish at some point. So if you imagine stomping to do the same you'll what i mean.

There is a stomp before die cha, and die cha is before golden chicken on one leg. Die cha is a difficult movement and it is the best example, i think, of how disperse during stomping is important.

@Silkreeling:
I guess I don't fully understand the need for dispersing the qi. I thought taiji was about cultivating and controlling qi, not necessarily dispersing it. This is also an area that I am further exploring as I begin to question more the rationale for training fajing in forms if no incoming force is given to me.

As for the "Dia Cha" move, I do a stomp there, but I still wonder why. In book by HJS, he mentions that CFK tells him that all movements in chen serve a purpose and that no move is wasted. I think I need to review the application DVD by CZH and get his explanation of this move and the martial purpose it serves b/c the dispersing qi purpose doesn't sit too well with me for some reason.

If there is a need to disperse qi via a stomp technique, then where is this technique found in other styles (yang, wu, sun, etc), do they not need to disperse qi? If not, why?

Good comments and thoughts ;)

Perhaps the bottom line is something in common to many aspects of the pactice---it is all about practicing enough to arrive at correct alignment and path of motion. As Hong Junsheng always mentioned "even a millimeter off", and you miss by a mile. So, for the stomp, if you are structurally off, and you stomp hard, you are going to jar the body in a misaligned state. You are definitely going to subject your spine, knees and other body parts to some stress.

Like all parts of the form, it makes sense to do it however slowly and mindfully might be necessary for establishing the perfect path of motion--the one which will allow alignment and structural integrity at each moment of the movement.

If there is a need to disperse qi via a stomp technique, then where is this technique found in other styles (yang, wu, sun, etc), do they not need to disperse qi? If not, why?

Good comments and thoughts ;)[/quote]

good observation. infact disperse should be throughout the form and this is true for all styles.

apart from the obvious martial application i have cited that disperse might be a reason for stomping. Now stomping in chen style means also there is a sudden change in shenfa (body method)from high to mid, and from mid to low, co-ordinated with the change in substantiality. I think it is because of this sudden change in tempo that neccesitate dispersing qi via stomping as the most effective method.

I am not sure about other styles but they seem to have a even tempo. Take Yang 108 for example, shoot the tiger follows lotus kick at the end - the shenfa is mid to mid done at a even tempo.

Also, thanks for your comment on the title. I didn't really put too much thought into it, just whatever came to my mind first.

I think this also explains why it may not be necessary in the more even tempo'ed styles like yang and wu. Great insights, silkreeling!

Now I just wonder about the effectiveness or the purpose behind tempo changes. For chen, I see the benefits of having both slow/fast, yin/yang, training both slow and fast elements in martial applications, but how does some of the more even tempo forms attribute to not having the tempo change? Did they not find it necessary as their goal was to developed sensitivity? Isn't the goal of all styles to develop sensitivity? Perhaps this would be better explored in a new post. Great thoughts that really spark the mind all :)

Song, san, tong, kong
The keys to entering the gate

Where the mind wills
The body reacts

Yi and xing
Must be separated

Hence yi zai xian
Is of utmost importance

So as not to confuse the domain
Of the mind with the body

We are all stupid
No need to figure out

Practice the methods of the ancients
Seek not and you will find enlightenment

For if we have to figure out ourselves
Then the methods are not being transmitted

Learning and understanding
Are two different things

Just as practicing to understand
And trying to understand intellectually

Hence the masters of old like to say
The secret is to practice

Those were words of value
Except they forgot to mention

That one should practice
What has been transmitted

And not be too smart
To try to second guess the methods

Be it martial arts,
Be it Buddhism

The methods of the mind
Are not easily grasped

And certainly not by
Thinking or guessing

For as Lao Tzu said
That which can be said

Is not
The real Tao

For when you see Song
You see San

The methods of Yang
Have no stomping

For how do you maintain Song
At the point of impacting forcefully?

And yet there is stomping in Yang
In High Pat on Horse

But its a mind stomp
Hence no "xing" impact

No "xing" impact means
The treasures of shen, yi, qi

Are maintained carefully
And qi is cultivated, not dispersed

Its a misunderstanding too common
When one does not follow the transmission

For the real objective is
To disperse "xing"

For only then can we say
Use intention, use no strength

And Song and San that old couple
Peacefully in harmony on the way they go

Thanks for your insightful prose. Reminds me of the real secret to taiji, that is:

Practice, Practice, Practice

An another note, I'll have to explore this "mind stomp" notion, however I do like the fact that you noted how qi should be cultivated and not dispersed, which is one of the core reasons for training taiji, IMO.

Xing(form with obvious shape) is necessary for undertanding the shenfa(body method). Differentiating xing and yi so that they can be better combined is indeed a good method. Common ways to achieve this are through simple visualisation exercises during zhan zhuang and silk reeling exercises or even in the forms. Due to the static nature of zhan zhuang postures, visualisation exercises are easier to attain through them than in the forms. But that is not to say that I don't incoporate them in the forms. This is my current level of understanding through practice, not second-guessing nor intellectualisation.

your words (purposely put in BOLD)? "Stomping serves to disperse(san) your qi and dispersing is an important principle to achieving emptiness in your body. This is something i am still TRYING TO FIGURE OUT." If anything this shows that you don't understand what emptiness is. If you are on the right track, you won't have "TO FIGURE OUT". If this is not trying to intellectually understand or 2nd guess the process then i guess i'm wrong in understanding what you mean. Anyway, its your path - good luck to you

AS for the wushu jump front slap kick, there's definitely quite a bit of biomechanics in play to get that extra "lift" mid-way in the air. When I used to do it, it was the result of a "pull-down" of the left leg, to kick with the right. In addition, the ricochet is interesting in that most jump front slap or butterfly kicks are preceeded by a 'hop', however the same is not true for movements like the spinning outer slap crescent kicks.

Wow.. that was mind warp thinking about my wushu days. I was tempted to try a jumping outer crescent kick, but last time I did that cold, I was out cold for 2 weeks :)

purposes of Stomp :
1)is for changing of foot step in order to get in to a advantage position (especially when you are wrong footed) and
2)at the same time create a psychological shock to the opponent.
3) Stomping helps teach the student to drop the weight of the body from the kua area.

I guess many people are practicing the stomp too early, then eh? I fear many, including myself, are probably not doing the stomp correctly. Perhaps this is rarely explained, such a shame.

In my understanding the chen laojia, when stomping, the foot does not change any direction. It's just put down. However, preceding the stomp can be a change in direction (ie.. flash the back). Are you saying the foot direction changes when stomping? If so, what movement has this?

If one is put in a 'wrong footed' position, I think we need to further explore the move and see if it's justifiable or applicable. To me, doesn't sound too smart to do something that would put us in a bad position. Perhaps this is why other style do not stomp? Do they always move in such a way that they remain in good, advantageous positions?

As for the psychological shock, if "flash the back" is done correctly, shouldn't be opponent be on the ground? Why need to shock him if he's already down? Also, stomps are usually accompanied with 1-footed turns, if turning on 1 foot is not a good thing to do, is it better to stomp and try to scare an opponent? If we assume our opponents to be well-trained martial artists, can we think a stomp would shock them?

As for dropping the weight from the kua area, shouldn't the weight be redirected to the ground? Why keep weight in the kua in the first place?

Thanks again for your comments, but I fear they have caused more questioning from me. Please provide further insight to clarify given points.
Thanks for your time.